Whitespace: A Work in Progress
Redesigns are a funny thing over here at Whitespace. If you have been here for a number of months/years then you know redesigns are nothing special, the only thing that really changes is the layout as I do my experimenting. This is the case with this most recent redesign effort.
There is still lots of little things to fix and add, but the previous design got on my nerves (which is usually why I redesign in the first place).
Comments > Entry?
On this site you know that my entries simply serve as conversation starters. You more than likely learn more from the readers’ insights because my entries offer nothing greater than common sense. With this in mind I figured I would try to give them a greater sense of importance both on the homepage and on the individual pages.
On the homepage you can see that the comment number is much larger and that I added more entries to the homepage. The reason for this is quite simple. Many of the entries are starting to receive more comments the day after it is published than the actual day it is published. With this in mind it only made sense to include more entries on the homepage.
For the more regular readers of Whitespace, the larger numbers sort of give you a running update of what is hot, what is cooling off or what entry never took off at all.
Is it important to know when an entry is published on the homepage? I’m not so sure so a lot of metadata is left off the page like dates for example. This could easily be added later, but for now I will leave it off until I hear otherwise.
Indy Pages Go Crazy
Reading comments on a blog will never be a successful venture I fear. The conversation usually goes off-topic and your comment can easily be lost in the shuffle. However, on many sites the comments are where the action takes place and Whitespace is no exception. I thought it would be interesting to see how comments placed next to the entry would work out. I like it, Rundle can’t stand it. A link could be added below the entry to prevent you from having to scroll back up.
Obviously this is not a final decision. I might put the comment form above the comment column or simply move everything back to the status quo with comments on the bottom. Either way the comment form will be prettied up because right now it sucks (along with the ugly ads, give me a couple of minutes to touch those up).
Footer
There is none right now. A work in progress like the rest of the site.
Aesthetics by Rundle
When you have a killer designer on your team it only makes sense to use his talents to your advantage. I did all the IA and majority of the design work. Rundle came in to pretty things up a bit, but did so with major handcuffs on so he is not to blame if there is nothing to like. I take full credit for anything you don’t like and you can give him full credit for everything you do like.
So have I gone off the deep end? Am I just barely missing some things that can totally change the experience of the site? If links are broken I am aware of them so what needs to be added? I’m listening.
I actually really like this new design. I think it’s perfect for this site, absolutely perfect.
By Jacob G. on September 6, 2005 1:31 pm
I love the index page. As for the individual entries…I’m still deciding. The comments on the side are not a bad idea, however they are very narrow.
Other than that I do really like it.
By Ryan Latham on September 6, 2005 1:43 pm
This is really great, good work. Love the big text and clear layout.
By Tom on September 6, 2005 1:44 pm
I think the whole idea of a site with the readers in mind - essentially a site revolving around comments - is very very interesting. The redesign is a plus and looks great. I don’t think having the ‘post dates’ is really important anymore - as long as we keep up with the site (newsreaders or just visiting everyday) then the day something was posted is very likely irrelevant. And if it is important, it’ll likely show up in part of the post. Maybe not directly, but you know what day the post about the planes crashing into those big buildings in New York without even having to mention or write the date. Extreme example, I know.
By Daniel Nicolas on September 6, 2005 1:45 pm
I like the design, especially the homepage. Not so sure about the comments though. Hmm. Nope, don’t think I like them in a column of their own.
But the homepage: YES!
By Roger Johansson on September 6, 2005 1:45 pm
“Reading comments on a blog will never be a successful venture I fear. The conversation usually goes off-topic and your comment can easily be lost in the shuffle.”
Try this layout:
Entry title
Comments
Entry (optional)
But I do like this new look. Reminds me of your other one with everything on the homepage, which was my favorite.
By david gouch on September 6, 2005 1:58 pm
Big is so hot right now. I love it. Comments, hmm. Not real sure about that yet.
By Garrett Dimon on September 6, 2005 2:00 pm
Looking very good so far. I was actually in the process of designing a page with a similar layout. I love the way you are displaying the number of comments. Very different.
By Brad on September 6, 2005 2:01 pm
Garrett is right - big is hot.
The site is very clear and readable. Well done in that respect.
However, on the homepage, the number of comments is displayed larger than the headline. Think about that hierarchy of information. Which is more important?
Also, to me, the nav bar looks like it’s just floating in space. It’s not anchored to anything. Butt it up against that colored bar along the top and problem solved.
By Dale Cruse on September 6, 2005 2:04 pm
Shouldnt this form fall under the comments rather than under the post? That way you tend to get people reading the comments before commenting. That reduces off topic and double posts.
If the comments are as important as the post why dont they have the same amout of room. A 50/50 split rather than the 65/35 at the moment.
Other than that, the front page is great, and the rest of the design is sweet.
By Eddie Sowden on September 6, 2005 2:06 pm
I definitely like the homepage as well, I think it works pretty well.
As for the indy pages, Eddie and the rest, you guys are right about the comment form being in the wrong place. It’s not so noticeable as I write this, but wait until there are 75 comments and you have to scroll back up to leave your two cents, then it might get a tad annoying.
Also, the 50/50 split was something Paul wanted that I neglected to code for some reason even though it makes more sense :)
It’s a work in progress, so we’ll continue to progress it…
By Mike on September 6, 2005 2:10 pm
Yeah, I’m not really likin’ the comments on the side either. Just my 2 dollars (blame the gas prices), but I just think it flows better if you read the entry, then read the comments right under it.
And damn those comment numbers are HUGE!
By Summerville on September 6, 2005 2:23 pm
Looks like comments won’t last that long the side. It was worth a shot.
By Scrivs on September 6, 2005 2:27 pm
The bad thing about the comments on the right is that when you read the entry you have to scroll all the way back up the page to see what people are saying. I love the rest of the design, though. As Garret said, “Big is so hot right now.” Love it.
By Glen C. on September 6, 2005 2:42 pm
I like the redesign, definitely going in a good direction. I kinda liked the comments on the side until scrolling up to post this comment. Like others, I’m digging the homepage, but I can’t get away from one thing - the huge comment number, and the styling around them, makes me think of a calendar page. I keep thinking the number is the day the item was posted. Granted, at the moment I’m posting this, the numbers are 14, 26, and could actually pass as dates; it won’t make much sense over 31, but that’s my first reaction.
By Jeff on September 6, 2005 2:52 pm
Nice design, but the lack of padding at the bottom of the page is kiilllling me. Everyone has their pet peeves don’t they?
By francey on September 6, 2005 3:15 pm
I think the big numbers look great, but they struck me as a date at first. The home page is awesome.
I agree with the others, the comments on the side don’t work. I think it is good that you tried it, but seeing it in practice it is annoying.
Two observations:
1) Takes focus off of reading the post in its entirety. Comments should not be read until the whole post has been read or you will lose some if not all of their context.
2) If you do read the whole post first, you have to then scroll all the way back up to read the comments.
By Jason G on September 6, 2005 3:20 pm
It’s simple and that’s a good thing. Try SIFR for your titles.
By William Stewart on September 6, 2005 3:43 pm
Well done… I like. Give yourself and Rundle a raise.
By Mike D. on September 6, 2005 3:53 pm
Scrivs: Before you ditch the comments on the side, I suggest leaving them there for a few weeks or a month as an experiment. Then see how many other blogs copy you.
By Dale Cruse on September 6, 2005 3:55 pm
I like the homepage and I like the idea of comments off to the right, but it is hard to read everything in order… To much contending for my attention.
By Kyle Posey on September 6, 2005 3:59 pm
Contact page is down. Otherwise, fabetastic.
By Morris on September 6, 2005 4:13 pm
Maybe having some sort of text indicating the date of last comment was made in the box along with the number of comments would be a better indicator of “hotness / freshness” then just the number of comments alone?
By Mark on September 6, 2005 4:15 pm
Looks great. Works great. Except for the comments on the side, I hate that….
By Keith on September 6, 2005 4:29 pm
You know what would be really hot? Framesets! A 3-column frameset. In the first column is the post, in the second is the comments and in the third is the comment form. that’d be so sweeeet. I love framesets.
By Jonathan Snook on September 6, 2005 4:37 pm
Good job on the redesign, though I’m not too sure about the comments on the side… having the comments at the bottom of the article, with the form in the side seems to make more sense (ala Snook and Jeff Croft).
I also have to agree with Dale about the navigation. With it having the squared top, and the negative space around the top of it, it feels as if it’s just floating, and isn’t anchored to the design.
The home page looks superb and I love the way that you’re emphasizing the number of comments on your posts, because as you said, the comments are where the information is at… for the most part.
By Steven Ametjan on September 6, 2005 4:53 pm
On my 12″ iBook, this works PERFECTLY. Not too narrow Ryan, not at all. Perfect.
By Colin D. Devroe on September 6, 2005 5:47 pm
Hmmm…I like the comments on the side (except for the part of having to scroll back up to read them, then having to scroll back up again to comment). It also got a little lonely towards the bottom of the comments when there was nothing but whitespace no man’s land to the left.
Having said that, I still like it (or perhaps the concept of it).
By Nicole on September 6, 2005 5:53 pm
For the most part I like the new look. I do think the comments draw your attention away from the entry being on the side.
By Christopher on September 6, 2005 6:21 pm
I love the sidebar comments, but there are obviously some logistical issues to work out there….
For the Yahoo ads, try a white border and red link color. I think you’ll get a better response that way.
By James Archer on September 6, 2005 7:30 pm
I remember Design by Fire tried to have comments by the side of the entry as well. The disruption to the flow was too much and it was gone in a few days.
But I like where you’re going with the strong focus on comments.
By Jack on September 6, 2005 7:54 pm
I like the nice clean design and the focus on reader comments. Comments on the side… meh.
One thing I wonder though - where is your link to your RSS feed? I didn’t see it either here or on the homepage. IMHO the RSS feed is one of the crucial parts of a blog and so should be front and center. eg you have a lot of room in your grey (silver?) header bar, on the right, so maybe put an orange button in there? Or perhaps top right corner of the top nav bar.
By Richard MacManus on September 6, 2005 8:29 pm
You are correct Richard and this is one of those things that needs to be added. Foolish of me not to include it immediately.
By Scrivs on September 6, 2005 8:32 pm
Home page is awesome. And pretty much everything i’ve wanted to say has been said already.
By Bryan Veloso on September 6, 2005 10:06 pm
Here is my two cents, take it or leave it. I think what would be cool is to have the title/date span both columns to show the relationship the article and response. There should be 50/50 with some sort of visual indicator highlighting the artice. I would move the comments form over on the right and have the last 10 comments below the form. From there you could have a link to show the rest of the comments on another page.
I am also a big fan of doing the comments in desending order.
By chet on September 7, 2005 3:08 am
All the cool people have sidebar comments, right? ;-)
Besides the comment form everything looks nice.
By Sebastian Schmieg on September 7, 2005 4:43 am
Great index page. What happens when you hit 100 comments though?
By Mathew Patterson on September 7, 2005 5:15 am
Great start! Congrats.
I’d like to know what happens if there are more than 99 comments. Would it bump the layout?
The major issue I have with such blogs as this one is that there is no way to jump to the latest unread comment. Also, there is no way to tell if there are new comments to a certain post, unless I remember the number of comments for a specific post the last time I read it. I think scrolling through all the comments and scanning to see if there is anything new is way too much to ask every time.
I have a much better system on creativebits where new comments are highlighted. It can also give a list of all the posts you participated in with the number of new comments for each and you can jump to only the new comments straight away. Once you start using such a system, you will start missing it everywhere.
The downside is that you have to register once so that the site can recognize you. Still I would prefer some kind of a solution to this major usability issue. Maybe cookies?
Ok, let’s see, I’m commenter 38. I’ll have to remember that number to see if there is any answer to my comment next time I come back.
By ivan raszl on September 7, 2005 5:40 am
Sweet re-design Paul ;)
This is about the third or fourth here at Whitespace this year!
I originally had this idea after the Asian Tsunami that after a redesign people auction their old design/templates for charity. Just with the frequency some people change their designs and with initiatives like the CSS Reboot where the old design is made obsolete it’d be a great way to raise cash for a good cause with some dormant pixels. Might be worth thinking about with the New Orleans catastrophe at the front of everyone’s thoughts ATM. I’m sure there’d be heaps of people wanting a genuine not so outdated Paul Scrivens design.
By Anthony on September 7, 2005 6:44 am
I too find this kind of design perfect for your site. Great job, Mr. CEO Scrivs.
While (almost) everyone has their comments below their posts, it’s gonna take a while to get used to this. But it seems to work ok I guess.
By Mikkel Malmberg on September 7, 2005 8:20 am
I loved the home page before the addition of the silver shaded box around most recent and the header. The shading doesn’t do it for me as much. I can see that you’re highlighting the most recent but since the entries are in a linear format it was already fairly obvious (I thought) that the most recent was at the top. It would seem more helpful to just include the post date in that same fashion. With the shading on the secondary pages too my eyes keep getting pulled towards the top of the page even though there isn’t anything there that I need to be looking at (I know where I am and I know the nav is at the top so I can use it if I need it… I don’t need to LOOK at it all the time). Overall I think it just makes the site look more cluttered without adding any cool points for improved functionality.
The comment numbers make me happy although I agree with Mark that the date of the last comment would be useful information. Maybe as a tooltip for those that care to preserve the beauty of the huge number.
I also agree with most that the comments on the side aren’t so fun. I think it actually takes away from the importance of the conversation because now the comments have the same weight as your sidebar of miscellaneous stuff on the home page.
By sunshine on September 7, 2005 8:24 am
A little bit late on the party, but the praise and props to both gentlemen.
By maratz on September 7, 2005 2:18 pm
It’s a beautiful design, one of the first to really grab my attention right away since Garrett Dimons homepage.
My only problem is that as much as I love the design of the homepage, the comments on the side of the site is somewhat distracting from the content, and seems to distract from the flow of how I read the page.
By Kyle on September 8, 2005 1:31 am
When I first saw this I thought it was cool, and the design is but I’ve decided I think the comments in a separate column is a bit rubbish.
I read the post, and then I have to scroll all the way to the top of the page to read the comments. Not particularly user friendly. Also the narrowness of the comments boxes makes the page far longer than it would be if the content was laid out in a ‘traditional’ way.
Of course it doesn’t really matter since you’ll probably redesign the site next week anyway :)
By ben on September 8, 2005 5:55 am