The People Web
Last week’s Women 2.0 seemed to strike a nerve with a lot of people and most of them were women. Glad to see the fellas jump onboard, but I digress. Two comments about 9rules and myself struck a nerve with me this weekend and it made me realize how much people still don’t get the web. Wait, let me rephrase that, how much geeks and the web elite still don’t get the web.
The first comment I won’t link to since he didn’t link to us and I never liked him anyways. This comment was made in response to FeedBurner launching feed “networks” which I guess are competitors to 9rules if you think 9rules is just about grouping sites together to place them in a feed with some ads.
…interesting move, sort of FM or 9rulesish…well 9rulesish if 9rules either gets it’s act together and offers advertising options…
I’ll have to remember that. After 14 months in existence we still haven’t gotten our act together because we don’t offer a solution to advertise on our Member’s sites. Go figure. Sure it would be great if 9rules was making millions right now and a kickass ad solution for all our members would rock as well, but we haven’t developed one (admittedly back in the day we did talk about one and start on it). If 9rules fails for not making money then that’s just bad business, but if we fail because we don’t understand people and don’t do what we set out to do then that’s just bad common sense.
Let’s not get into the details of the resources needed to run an effective ad network because if you think advertisers just pop out of no where to sign up you have a few business books to read up on.
This next comment was made by the great Tomas Jogin and is in reference to this video I made on online lingo spoken out loud.
You are making a fool of yourself. Not just with this video, but with _all_ your videos. You don’t come off as funny, just dumb. I’m telling you this because I think that if _I_ was making a fool of myself like you are doing now, I’d want someone to tell me so. Seriously.
Now what in the hell do these comments have in common? They ignore the people element that is so crucial to 9rules and the web in general. To me, 9rules getting its act together would mean that we weren’t helping Members connect with each other and readers or helping readers find sites in the genres they are looking for. Me acting a fool is simply that, me acting a fool. Mark Fusco calls it shock value, but I just call it me being me.
What you see in that video is what you would see if you met me in real life. Certain geeks and web elite might not appreciate it. I (which also means 9rules) do not follow conventional methods of “doing” the web. I don’t get paid to be funny, smart, annoying or any other adjective. I get paid to be me and the same goes for my team.
So many people love the web because they can pretend to be somebody they are not or maybe they get to connect with other geeks like themselves. The problem is the geeks all of a sudden think they are god’s gift to the internet and instead of being the outcasts have cast themselves as the superstars. But that’s not the web and that’s not real life. We love Flickr, but there are bigger photo sites out there. We love del.icio.us as well, but how many of your family members know about it?
Mike coined the term Deaf Echo two weeks ago and it’s the part of the blogosphere where people only comment on the same sites that are part of their circle of friends. Nothing wrong with that, but don’t start to think that your circle has all of a sudden become the whole web. Business and life in general revolves around the relationships you make and that means that people have to understand you. These videos, no matter how foolish I look or how stupid you may think they are, help me connect to people I otherwise couldn’t.
You can’t honestly think that anyone else besides geeks (it’s okay, I’m a geek as well) and people knee deep in the web follow this site right? I could go back to secluding myself and sounding pretentious (maybe I still do that anyways…), but there are interesting people out there who wouldn’t be able to relate to me. I used to be the 35 year old white guy on Whitespace and now I’m the 12 year old kid on 9rules. Funny thing is, both of those personas are me and that’s what I am trying to get people to understand.
Why people wish to classify Web 2.0 as one that involves tagging, RSS, XML, APIs and other technologies that the general public just doesn’t care about is beyond me. You don’t want a web 2.0 site. You want a people site. Sit down and look at the largest sites on the web today and show me how many of them can claim that their coolest feature is tagging or RSS. I can’t connect to the first commentor or to Tomas because we just don’t see eye-to-eye, but if they can’t relate to what I do then honestly those aren’t the people I want to connect to. Many people who read this won’t relate to that because they will think you have to be a certain way to succeed and that has never been the case. Go ahead and be you, some will like it and some won’t, but isn’t that how the real world works anyways?
Final question: How big of a role do the web elite and geeks play in the success of Google, Yahoo, YouTube, MSN, MySpace, Amazon and eBay?
free people search find and contact anyone in the US on PeekYou.com - for free
At the risk of being a part of the deaf echo I definitely agree with all you’ve said here: geeks annoy me. Who is anyone to say you’re looking like a dork? YouTube is popular as shit and I’d venture to say the majority of videos are people.. oh, that’s right, being dorks. The top videos? Just one person in front of a camera. People have a natural (instict) ability to connect. Hence, MySpace, Facebook, et all.
I appreciate this quote: “instead of being the outcasts have cast themselves as the superstars.” The internet allows us to hear what we want to hear and see what we want to see. They can moderate comments on their blog but in ‘real life’ nobody would give two cares to even acknowledge those same people…
By Devin on August 7, 2006 2:50 pm
The hardest truth for young entrepreneurs trying to make it in “Web 2.0″ faux-businessland to stomach is this: the companies that flaunt an EXPERIENCE over technologies are the ones that go far. The companies that extend their reach BEYOND the echo chamber of Silicon Valley or the male-dominated tech industry are the ones that latch-on and become significant in people’s lives, not the ones who mashup and copycat.
If some people can’t appreciate the goofy videos or podcasts that 9rules puts together, that’s not a big deal, because we’re proud of the few dozen thousand people who can and who tell all their friends. Everybody gets scared when a group goes down a new path and does things differently than everyone else because that’s human nature. We’re not going to look or sound professional in videos or podcasts because for one, that’s not who we are, and number two, professional is boring. We’re more about doing things we think are fun because odds are other people think they’re fun too, and it’s been working pretty well.
By Mike Rundle on August 7, 2006 3:06 pm
I beat Mike to a blog entry about 9rules, what do I win?
By Devin on August 7, 2006 3:10 pm
Your final question hits the nail: “How big of a role do the web elite and geeks play in the success of Google, Yahoo, YouTube, MSN, MySpace, Amazon and eBay?”
I love the community I find myself in, but it is the professional associations I make that give it value. I do not think I am a superstar, and I hope my peers are equally grounded (I know my Brit lot are). As you say, we have influence on our associates, immediate readers and specific subject areas - and not on the internet as whole. Web designers and accessibility folks might know a few of the names, but that is where it stops. I like it that way.
Paul, I do think you sometimes make a fool of yourself, and you wouldn’t argue with me, right? I often make a fool of myself online, and to me it is a virtue I will not lose just because it upsets people. I don’t like your videos (shit, I hope that doesn’t mean we wouldn’t get on in real life) and sometimes I completely disagree with your opinions - but that also goes for the opinions of my best mate, girlfriend and parents. That is life, and it doesn’t matter. I still read your thoughts, and always will. To disagree sometimes makes the experience more enjoyable for me.
By Colly on August 7, 2006 3:16 pm
“9rules needs to behave the way I expect them to or they won’t be successful.”
I hear being everything to everyone is a really good business plan. Better get on that guys. Your lack of attempting to please everyone is very disappointing and really hurts your credibility with people who don’t even know about 9rules.
By Matthew Oliphant on August 7, 2006 3:18 pm
Ok, so Thomas doesn’t get your vids. Big whup! I thought they were pretty damn funny. And I know lots of other people who did as well. Sure, I’ve met you in person, so I’ve got some context, but part of work/life/the web, etc. should be fun, regardless of whether or not everyone gets it.
I mean heck, I don’t think Coudal’s videos are all that funny and they get high praise for their stuff. What? Because they’re somehow a higher brow of humor or they’ve got more of a point? I don’t think any less of them because I’m not really into the same kind of humor as they are and I certainly wouldn’t imply that they’re making fools of themselves.
A huge part of what makes the Web (elite or mom-n-pop) what it is is personal expression. They’re are MILLIONS of people out there and not everyone is going to jive with everything. There’s nothing wrong with that. Being yourself will usually result in more success and happiness than trying to conform. Sure people might not get it, but who gives a shit? ;0)
By Keith on August 7, 2006 3:25 pm
Colly: You have a better sense of humor than me anyways so I never expected someone of your class to like my lower class stuff ;-). And yeah I make a fool of myself all the time and by no means do I think I have the right to be above that. Is it easier to relate to the person you see on TV or the guy who just ran into the glass door in your office?
Keith: You need to do videos. You make me laugh and that makes me happy. Or at least put you wife in them.
Devin: You get a mention and shoutout in today’s ST. That’s your reward.
By Scrivs on August 7, 2006 3:49 pm
[...] Referenced: 9@9 #1, The People Web, Online Lingo: Spoken [...]
By ScrivsTyme #57 » ScrivsTyme on August 7, 2006 3:55 pm
Dude, you’re starting to make me wonder with all these personal mentions lately.
Anyway, I’m not making any differentiation between you producing shock value and you being yourself. The people who are the best at shocking others are those who already have it within their personalities to do that.
By Mark on August 7, 2006 4:16 pm
Trust me Mark, I’ve been a bit worried myself.
By Scrivs on August 7, 2006 4:23 pm
Nice post. Personally, I agree that your videos don’t appeal to me at all, and they make you look a bit goofy, but hey, it’s no different to what I do in the privacy of my own home. I don’t publicise it on the web; perhaps I should, but that’s besides the point. You’re a wacky guy online and off; I can accept this. Because I think the videos are stupid, you don’t “connect” to me this way. I’ll also give your oreoceo.com and ST podcasts a miss. But I totally dig the wisdump. That’s how I connect. I’m happy to extract the nuggets of goodness from here, ignore the rest and everyone’s happy.
By Michael McCorry on August 7, 2006 8:50 pm
Dude, you can’t please all the people all the time so don’t try to. You never have and ya know what, you’re successful because of it. You’re honest and you don’t try to be something you’re not. The videos, ST, Oreo CEO, it’s all you and if other people don’t like it, who cares? It’s working for you. So don’t stop doing what you’re doing and forget about the few people who feel the need to bash you occasionally. They obviously aren’t in much of a position to tell you what you should be doing.
By Mattbob on August 7, 2006 10:49 pm
“The first comment I won’t link to since he didn’t link to us and I never liked him anyways”
That’s alright Scrivs, I can assure you the feeling is mutual…how’s the porn business going? ;-)
By Duncan on August 8, 2006 4:35 am
You want the honest answer or the honest answer? In both cases the situation is good. Thanks for asking. How’s that new b5 design coming along? Splendid I see. As usual, always great talking to you Duncan. You never change so you always know what to expect.
By Scrivs on August 8, 2006 5:51 am
Suffice to say I didn’t invite you into that working group, and Jeremy won’t be making that mistake again.
By Duncan on August 8, 2006 6:33 am
Haha, shame since I’m the one who provided him with the most feedback.
By Scrivs on August 8, 2006 6:42 am
And great feedback it was….not.
By Duncan on August 8, 2006 7:59 am
Funny since he implemented almost all of my suggestions. Go figure. LOL.
Wait, I mean:
L
O
L
Glad to see you are still feisty Duncant. Wasn’t even sure if you were still around and I was beginning to miss our conversations together.
*hugs
By Scrivs on August 8, 2006 8:12 am
So there was this site once that had some good content.. Ciao
By Ross Hill on August 8, 2006 8:59 am
“And great feedback it was….not.”
Nah I remember the feedback being pretty good. Paul and I went over the layout carefully and then gave Jeremy our thoughts about design focus, leading the user’s eye down the page, diversifying design elements, and it was a really good exchange that was definitely taken into consideration. I hope you guys launch the updated blog theme soon because new site launches are always cool to see.
To be honest I was expecting you guys to start aggregating content into Channel verticals for easier access… is that still part of the plan?
By Mike Rundle on August 8, 2006 9:30 am
Personally, I thought the feedback was valuable. No real need to talk about it publicly, though, as Scrivs/Duncs disagreements are common knowledge already :)
By Jeremy Wright on August 8, 2006 10:46 am
Scrivs & Duncan: No bickering across presidents, please.
I agree with everything said here; 9rules may not please everyone but it pleases enough people that it remains successful. Scrivs and the gang have made some mistakes in the past, but as long as they learn from it, they will be better off in the hand.
Say it with me now… the web is made of people! People!
By Montoya on August 9, 2006 7:05 pm
[...] I think perhaps Scrivs from 9rules hits the mallet on the pogo stick in a recent post in which he says that the reason why people love the internet so much is because “they can pretend to be somebody they are not or maybe they get to connect with other geeks like themselves”. AKA some people take the web a little bit too seriously. [...]
By Best Blog on WordPress » Some Unconventional Blogging Advice on August 10, 2006 8:07 pm
[...] Scrivs gets it: geeks and the web elite still don’t understand the web. [...]
By adaptive path » blog » blog archive » Signposts for the Week Ending August 11, 2006 on August 11, 2006 6:57 pm
[...] Blog network owners like to argue. Why? Because they all have their own ideas of how a blog network should be run. They’re also very protective of the network they’ve built and why shouldn’t they be? I’m very proud of Random Shapes and every other blog network owner out there should be proud of his/her own network. [...]
By Mattbob -- Blog Archive » Arguments on September 9, 2006 3:16 pm