Non-Scientific Poll: Underdog or Big Dog
Here is a question that I have been thinking about a lot recently since 9rules seems to be sort of in that transition phase between underdog and company that other startups are gunning after (don’t ask me why). If you had a company or own a company what position would you rather be in, the Underdog role or the Big Dog role where everyone is claiming they are going to do things better than you?
Related reading:
I think it would be good to have the public perception of the underdog, the do-good, on ‘our’ side — no matter if you really are that little puppy you once were.
By Daniel Nicolas on January 6, 2006 1:38 am
I agree that from a public perception standpoint it’s best to remain the darlings of the public, but from a business standpoint the darlings might be the ones who aren’t turning a profit or making some bank for themselves. In that case it’s almost like you want to be the Big Dog because at least it means you did something right in the past and you are somewhat secure.
There are many pluses and minuses to each and I will go into them in more detail in a later entry, but I wanted to see what others think.
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 1:47 am
depends if the big dog status comes with a few bil..
google was underdog for a while and somehow came into billions and the big dog label..
37s has always been the small dog but somewhere switched from under- to big-..
i think dog status is dependant upon quality and exposure. when good quality meets high publicity and exposure you start attracting the haters and become a legit threat to others..
so yeah i’d rather be in the big dog boat. comes with some headaches, but seems like those are worth the mad cash that could come with it.
By jason on January 6, 2006 1:49 am
I’d rather be on the side of the underdog. No, wait, big dog. I don’t know…..
There are too many examples of both being “good”.
Google & Microsoft == big dogs
Google = good. Microsoft also good. But sometimes very bad….
The same can be said for underdogs like finefools, and 9rules(soon to be big dog :-)). What happens to the underdogs when they fail? Nothing, because not many remember their measly attempts to “do things better” than the big dogs.
But what happens to the big dogs when they fail? Alot of people suffer… shareholders, investors, business models that run off google juice, etc….
So I’d probably go with the underdog model, and have the intention of becoming a big dog. Google started in similar circumstances. :-)
By JBagley on January 6, 2006 2:06 am
Always the underdog.
Keep the Big One looking back, not forward.
Keep nipping at his heels, taking small chunks out of his game.
Turn on a dime when you need to while he lumbers slowly wondering what the hell is coming next.
And pass him up in the final stretch.
Always the underdog.
By Larson on January 6, 2006 2:12 am
If you pass him up in the final stretch don’t you become the big dog then?
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 2:13 am
Option C: It doesn’t matter. The underdog that doesn’t execute is just as bad as the big dog that’s all talk.
Focusing on the business is so much more important than plotting yourself on the underdog/bigdog spectrum.
Maybe that’s not the answer you are looking for…
By Omar on January 6, 2006 2:18 am
Srivs-
Nope.
The race is over at that point (e.g. the industry changes, you go a different way, you both die - the end of the game).
Underdog as career path? I guess that’s more concise.
By Larson on January 6, 2006 2:25 am
I’d absolutely have to go with the underdog role! What excites me so much about business is the challenge of it all - get started, getting noticed, getting business and growing. And I’ve also come to believe that the underdogs in any business is where 90% of new innovation and progress comes from. Big Dogs like (think Microsoft and others that seem to have peaked out) are too busy trying to maintain their mammoth financial and sales girth to worry or think about innovating, risking, and trying something new.
By Daniel Scrivner on January 6, 2006 3:15 am
It doesn’t matter. We are all underdogs in one way, and we’re all big dogs in another. We’re all part of the food chain. While there are plenty of smaller, weaker fish for us all to gobble up, there’s always a bigger fish (even for Bill Gates and the Google boys) waiting to swallow us up.
Que Elton: “…It’s the circle of liiiffffee…”
You’re a big sports fan, so I’ll assume you watched the Rose Bowl. Just last week, Reggie Bush was the “big dog”, Vince was the percieved underdog. Today, Vince in on the cover of SI, doing interviews on late night talk shows, kissing crystal footballs, and the darling of NFL scouts and Houston sports fans. Where’s Reggie?
So much for being the “big dog”, in the media and public viewpoint, anyway.
Truth is, Vince was never an underdog. Just follow his history from high school. He did the same thing in the Rose Bowl as he has done his entire career — perform spectacular greatness.
No, Vince is the dark horse that no one saw coming. If he keeps that attitude, now that he’s a big dog at the moment, he’ll continue to amaze and so will anyone who does likewise.
“I’m the hand up Mona Lisa’s skirt. I’m a surprise, Kevin. They don’t see me coming…”
-Al Pacino as John Milton in “The Devil’s Advocate”
By Mark on January 6, 2006 7:46 am
To clarify my last —
Being a big dog or underdog is limiting. Think about it. Underdogs tend to try to hard or feel limited by their shortcomings and look to be something they’re not, hence the term underdog. Bigdogs, conversly, tend to get relaxed and comfortable in the hype that surrounds them.
Neither is good.
Being the dark horse, the outside chance, the suprise, however, is not limiting nor big headed. It’s a positive, healthy attitude that works for the big and little alike.
By Mark on January 6, 2006 8:20 am
Underdog
By Tom on January 6, 2006 8:41 am
Mark: So couldn’t we say it was advantageous for VY to be the underdog in that matchup because expectations on him were a bit less? Reggie Bush didn’t have a bad game, but statistically White and Young had better ones and therefore the big dog was a disappointment.
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 9:09 am
Let your competitors think you’re the big dog. Internally, act like the underdog. To your customers don’t act like anything.
By Ryan on January 6, 2006 9:39 am
Might be the best answer that we will see in this discussion. Well said Ryan.
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 9:43 am
But here’s the kicker Paul -
VY didn’t consider himself an underdog, UT didn’t consider him an underdog. Hell, if you listened to the comments of the USC coach after the game, even USC didn’t consider him an underdog.
What did occur however was a surprise outcome for everyone involved with the exception of VY.
That’s the black horse factor at work.
By Mark on January 6, 2006 10:00 am
So to combine that with Ryan’s comment the best scenario is being perceived as the Big Dog to the competition, the Underdog to the public, and acting like the Underdog internally, but with an understanding that you have the power and control to take over the Big Dog and therefore giving you that Dark Horse mentality.
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 10:08 am
No, that wouldn’t be the wise move.
By Tyme on January 6, 2006 10:21 am
I’d say don’t act like anything - be real, be who you are.
If you have the confidence to know you can smash your competitor, then have the heart of a big dog and get it done.
If the public gets a glimpse of your potential for kickin ass and takin names, great– just make sure you cut the insuing hype out of your mindset.
If you want to call that being an underdog, cool. I prefer to call it focus, keeping your wits, remaining centered, and being the dark horse.
By Mark on January 6, 2006 10:27 am
Damn Tyme, you can’t say that and bounce. Spread the wisdom girl! That’s the meaning of Whitespace!
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 10:55 am
Oops…sorry. :)
Because you’re wasting precious time.
Let’s roll with your theory. That means you have to focus on three things:
1) Being the Big Dog to the competition.
2) Being the Under Dog to the public
3) Acting like the Under Dog internally yet realizing your’re the Big Dog so you don’t forget you can kick some ass.
All while you’re trying to succeed as a business. And please your end users. And the people who work for you. The list goes on.
Does that sound like a wise use of resources (time, energy, etc) to you?
By Tyme on January 6, 2006 11:27 am
Well the question started off as which position would you rather be in and not which one you should actively try to achieve all the time. Focus the resources on doing things right with the business and hopefully the rest will follow.
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 11:48 am
Well, in regards to your question, isn’t the real goal of every underdog to disprove that title?
If not, then what’s the point –Mediocre dog?
By Mark on January 6, 2006 12:22 pm
Yes, but you said it was the best answer. :)
But let’s take your original question: which position would I rather be in?
My answer: I’m wouldn’t focus on that. See, while the “competition” (who isn’t real “true” competition - just a blip on the radar I should be aware of) is attempting to tear me down, I would be doing my thing. So focused in fact that when I reached Big Dog status it will because I look around and no one can touch me. When you reach Big Dog status your “real” competition isn’t talking about you - they’re working hard to over-throw you…very quietly, very methodically. Business is business.
Have you ever been to a racetrack (fast track)? They put blinders on the horses so they don’t look around them, only in front of them. Are they aware of the other horses? Of course, but the blinders help to keep the horse focused.
I would be keeping an eye on my “true” competition (and I would have to do some critical thinking because if I don’t accurately define my “true” competition I would be in a position of weakness not strength) because that is the only way to remain competitive. I would also realize that my “true” competition isn’t saying a damn thing, they’ve got blinders on.
Anyway, that is what I would do, and my strategy would be formed around that. Gotta have a good strategy, ya know? :)
And I completely understand where you are coming from….I really really do. And I’d go into that but it would end up being a book…but I do get it, probably more than you know.
In the end you should do what feels right to you and create your destiny, that way you won’t have any regrets if it doesn’t work out the way you hoped and you’ll learn from it, dust yourself off and kick ass the next time.
Does that make sense?
Ok, I’m hungry now. Girl’s gotta eat. :)
By Tyme on January 6, 2006 12:29 pm
Tyme - I think that you can seem like an underdog to one audience, a big dog to another, and not spend a lot of time actively trying to manufacture those beliefs. It’s all in how you approach your public, how you speak, how you communicate, and how you back up what you communicate.
Another way to look at this is the pond analogy. Are we a big fish in a little pond, or a goldfish in a lake? Are we the big dog in one sense, or the underdog in another? Can we be both to different people? It’s all in how people perceive you.
For example, I get emails from younger designers (younger than me and I’m 22) saying how they look up to the work I’ve done and ask me for advice. But then I look up to other designers and talk to them asking for advice. People look up to me, but I look up to others. It’s a perpetual and circular thing. 9rules can be many things to many people without us actively perpetuating those feelings. People all see things differently.
By Mike Rundle on January 6, 2006 12:29 pm
Tyme: Makes perfect sense. Thanks for a real answer. Love when you do that. We will of course continue doing what we do and following our own path and have our own drummer giving us a beat to dance to. I was just curious about the question :-)
By Scrivs on January 6, 2006 12:32 pm
Mike - It is all relative and constantly changing. No one will ever agree until you truly make it to the top and there simply isn’t any other competition.
With the pond analogy it depends on what picture you look at. If you’re talking about your “true” market (the one you spoke of on my site) then you’re a goldfish in a lake. If you’re talking about the recent drama (the blips on the radar that don’t really matter) then you’re a big fish in a pond but that doesn’t matter does it, if it’s not your true goal?
Does 9rules have the power to be a whale in an ocean? Absolutely…more than you realize. :)
By Tyme on January 6, 2006 2:24 pm
Thanks Tyme, I always love reading your comments. They make me feel as though you totally “get” what I’m sayin ;)
Here’s to 9rules full of barnacles…. *cling*
By Mike Rundle on January 6, 2006 2:32 pm
If you’re on track to be a whale, then be a whale. Don’t act like a big goldfish with one group, a baby whale with another and a blowfish with the remainder.
By Mark on January 6, 2006 2:39 pm
I’m with Tyme - it’s how I perceive myself.
“In the end you should do what feels right to you and create your destiny, that way you won’t have any regrets if it doesn’t work out the way you hoped and you’ll learn from it, dust yourself off and kick ass the next time.”
If I’m happy with me, what others think or perceive makes no difference. Self-Respect means exactly that, earned from the inside out…
Very wise Tyme. WTG
By Mark Wade on January 6, 2006 3:33 pm
Someone in the prev. comments had it right… always act as the underdog…
When you achieve big-dog status, you tend to stagnate (MS Anyone?) but if you keep your mindset in the realm of the underdog, you can be as large as google and still push the market…
Companies who do this are seen as major inovators! Google, Yahoo (to an extent), Apple, 37signals (among others). While those who get to the top of the ladder and let it go to their heads tend to be very slow to react.
Microsoft developed AJAX functionality but didn’t know what they had when they had it… Google figured it out and ran with it an now NOONE looks at MS and says, “Wow, their smart”. All the attention is on the other guys.
By CodeNinja on January 6, 2006 4:55 pm
If I had a company I would prefer to be the Big Dog. Let’s face it, it all comes to the publicity and clients. A well quoted company has a better chance of being successfull, an underdog company might never come out of that.
What would you prefer, being a kid that does a couple of cute things with friends or having your company that’s well succeeded and has a future?
I would definitely go for a chance at being where the big money is.
By Mario on January 7, 2006 10:08 pm
Don’t act like or think you are anything. Do what you do. Your only true competition is yourself. If you can produce something better than what you’re producing, you’re wasting your time. Always better yourself. You are your goal.
If you’re producing your best work and you don’t make it in the market you’ll never be the big dog anyway.
By Joe Clay on January 8, 2006 11:40 am
I disegree with Joe. If you have bills to pay and live from your business you can’t just do it for yourself and you got to think about the competition and try to match or go over them other wise you’ll always be 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice.
And trust me, you don’t born with a gift you practice and improve so if you’re work isn’t good, keep on practicing and maybe one day you’ll get to the top spot.
By Mario on January 8, 2006 8:39 pm
It appears no matter what dog you are there is always going to be someone to kick you - kicking net dogs is the passion of so many. I really think that either position is not ideal. Ultimately, I go with Tyme on the resources thing and also add my own bit along the being true to yourself vein. If you just focus on being yourself and being true to your methodology then whatever label you have thrust onto you won’t be a problem. Labels will always be put onto anything online and the knack is either having to have a new label created just for you or just sticking to what you are good at and investing in the users and members.
By karmatosed on January 9, 2006 4:01 am
Big dog, ofcourse.
Anyone saying something else doesn’t know the first thing about running a business.
It’s like telling the world champion (in whichever sports) that it’s no good to be the defender of the title…
Be good. Be big - and seek the challenge it is to stay number one. That is more time consuming and difficult than anyone can imagine.
To stay number one you’d have to always outsmart the underdogs. You still have to be cutting edge and creative - and you need to have a sound focus on day-to-day management to strain the big dog from becomming careless regaring it’s clients, costs and your creative force.
Of course would I love to be the big dog! The big dog get’s invitations to all sorts of nice projects, while the underdog spend far too much time chasing even the oppertunity…
By Denial Sander on January 9, 2006 7:24 am
Mario, that’s not what I mean by you are your own competition.
Yes, you should always keep practicing. What I meant was in effort. I’m sorry that wasn’t clear. I meant that if you know you can produce something better than what you are producing, then you are wasting your time producing the inferior product.
By Joe Clay on January 9, 2006 10:18 pm
Be the big dog to the people that make the decisions and sign cheques; underdog to the people that are going to help you get in front of the decision makers in the first place, and aim to be top dog to both.
By Derek Featherstone on January 10, 2006 12:15 am
No doubt, I’d rather be the Big Dog, this way I would have more staying power.
Think about it. Deep pockets to market a shitty product, that I am told endlessly is getting better each and every time. Deep pockets to buy my competition who has a solid product with a decent feature set, or pay for the attorneys to sue their pants off. And then there is always the control of roughly more that 90% of the way you see the Internet.
No question…. Big Dog
By Dan Jallits on January 10, 2006 7:06 pm
I work w/a starbucks competitor who is going through the same thing… here’s the NYT article (can’t find it on the times site): http://themudtruck.com/press/mudtruck/05_05_NYTI.html
By Seven on January 17, 2006 5:49 pm